A Shout Out To My Fellow Christian Friends


I received the following response to one of my post. It is from a person named Abdulbasit I. Gari. He seems to be under the belief that men are, or were not, punished by God for adultery. He further claims that God did not punish Lot for sleeping with his daughters:
I don’t see a problem with having a good Sexual Appetite. It reflects the nature of Human being.
I have a problem with how to satisfy this sexual appetite. The bible showed us how the prophets are sexually active. Don’t be a shamed if you have Sexual potentials.
The Shame comes from the way you express your sex life.
This is the problem with the bible (Genesis 19:31-35) A prophet (Lot) who is respected by God and Angles Sleep with his two daughters. This is really sick.
Or the other Prophet and the Grand mother of Jesus who was his daughter in law? (Genesis 38: 15-18) (of course as muslims, we believe all these are lies)

In the bible, only the women get punished for adultery (Genesis 38) and all the guys are free to do what ever suit their appetite. In Islam, Men as Women shall be Punished for adultery:
“The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication flog each of them with a hundred stripes: let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.” (Quran 24-2)

Muhammad the human being, has his sexual appetite but he did it in acceptable manner. If this manner was not accept in his culture, his message weren’t reached to the Roman Empire and Persian Empires

Of course, yours truly, fired this response back: Thou shall not commit adultery, as stated in the 10 Commandments, applies to men and women. And God did not condone Lot’s sleeping with anyone but his wife.
If I am not mistaken, one of allah’s wives was a pre-teen. Let’s talk about sick? Look at how women today are treated in Muslim countries, and compare them to western societies, the USA specifically. Sorry, allah and Islam don’t think much of women, now do they?

The Bible, being the Word of God, is also like a newspaper of that day, reporting facts, and just because something is written in the paper, does not always mean it is condone by the editor/reporter.
It is also my opinion that saying women are treated better by the Islamic world, compared to mostly Christian majority nation, is laughable, if not for its seriousness.

So my Christian friends, what say you to Abdul?

26 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. augustinehippo1
    Jan 06, 2012 @ 12:49:48

    The claim that Muslim women are treated better than Christian women is indeed laughable. We all know that is a lie and not even worth the pixels to rebutt.

    This is a typical Muslim tactics. They always want to put Christians under the Mosaic law and then use a strawman type argument to poke holes in our definition of God. I am a New Covenant Christian, not an Old Covenant Hebrew. The ten commandments do not apply to me anymore than the other 613 commandemnts of the Mosaic law. The NT Christian has only two laws, love God with all your heart, mind and strength, and love your neighbor (male or female) as yourself. In a society where evil men kept women in as cattle, with no rights, Jesus and the writers of the NT did more to liberate women than anybody in human history. Women were hugely involved in supporting financially the ministry of Jesus and the church. Many NT women were wealthy (Marks mother) and Lydia was a important business women who helped Paul when he was in Thyatira. In Christianity women and men are totally equal, but have different roles. The husband is to love the wife like Christ loved the church, in a sacrifical ( willing to take a bullet ) way, and the wife is to give respect to the leadership role of the husband. There is no inferiority of women at all. I don’t see any women praying in the mosque next to their husbands. My wife is right next to me in church.

    Lots daughters got him drunk and had sex with him because they did not have faith that God would provide them husbands and children. Yes there were great consequences to this incorrect use of sex. The Amorites and Moabites which were the result of this sinful sex act were enemies of God people for centuries. Actions have consequences.

    Reply

  2. The Conservative Hill Billy
    Jan 06, 2012 @ 12:56:47

    Thanks Auggie. I knew you would say it better than I would!

    Reply

  3. augustinehippo1
    Jan 07, 2012 @ 05:08:29

    Correction: that was Ammonites not Amorites. Sometimes i get my “ites” mixed up.

    “The Bible, being the Word of God, is also like a newspaper of that day, reporting facts, and just because something is written in the paper, does not always mean it is condone by the editor/reporter.”

    This is a very good point John. The bible is reporting on the activites of evil people doing evil things in a fallen world. This is not the idea situation which God originally designed. God had already wiped out all humanity because the intent of their hearts was “all evil, all the time” and now mankind goes right back to killing and oppressing one another with God trying to work with this bunch of knucleheads. Like my Pastor says, many times in the old testament God says, “close enough” it’s not the way I want things to be but “close enough for now”.

    Reply

  4. wayne2008sblogsite
    Jan 07, 2012 @ 19:22:00

    A woman who is raped in Islamic Nations is said to have committed adultery if she is married, a single woman who is raped is considered a harlot.

    I think it is obvious Sharia Law itself is not for those who love freedom.

    Reply

  5. abdulbasit I. Gari
    Jan 08, 2012 @ 22:01:38

    Augustine, Wayne & Billy,
    Thank you very much for the very kind and beautiful address of the issue.
    I actually didn’t have a full understanding of the way of how Christian Receives the Old Testimony. Any how, my goal is to show the rational of Muslims regarding their religion.
    Regarding the Women Issue: first of all regarding the head cover:
    in the early days of Islam, there was no law of covering the head till the Surah 33:59 came. http://quran.al-islam.com/Loader.aspx?pageid=738&BookID=15&page=1
    There was only one Companion who thought they shall cover the whole body including the faces. While all other Companions believe the face can be shown which is very obvious from the Ayah.

    Therefore, more than 95% of the Muslim women show their faces. (the only two country who apply the whole body cover is Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan) I am a Saudi Arabian with a Semi-Afghan Origin and below is why I think the most strict rule shall be used.

    The law of a country is usually based on its environment. you cannot apply a law that cannot fit the environment. in the Arabian Peninsula there are people called the Desert Arab (9 phrases were warning Muslim of them e.g. Surah 9:97 & 48:11)
    therefore, women are exposed to a danger life if they expose themselves to them. They would be protected if they covered the whole body. In Afghanistan, which is not a pleasant place to go. These people are also very danger and the rules must be strict to control them. They are drug manufacturer and very opium farmer. So Muslims Ruler (of course weaken already in Afghanistan) tend to apply the most stringent rules to keep the peace.

    Wayne:
    this is not true. What you are referring to is the arabic Culture which Islam came to change and it was changed in the early ages but the Arab kept their culture the same.
    we have the same Mosaic law. the application of the law happened twice during our Prophet time and he avoided to punish those people but because of their insistence he applied the rule (search “Hadith Muslim 4202”) the and the third time was a man saw his wife with another man but since he couldn’t give the right evidence he made what we call mula’anah and divorced her (read http://www.alim.org/library/hadith/SHB/407/9 or search “Hadith Muslim 3553”).

    What you mentioned is applied by the Desert Arab, Afghan and Canaan tribes not Islam.

    Regarding whether the American Women are living better life or not:
    I can think of many aspect that make the life better as follows:
    1- is it fun: well Religion is not fun. If you want to have fun that cross the lines of the religion, do it and try not to brag about it. (more than 70% of the Muslims countries are very open and you can find women free to do even as prostitutes job and nobody even blame her. I brought that extreme to demonstrate the amount of freedom they have.) (25% are balanced and they can do what ever they like except (drinking alcohol and having an illegal affair publicly), 5%
    2- Freedom to do social activities: for 95% of the Muslim women (except Afghan and Saudi Arabia), they have similar life to the European or American. for the Afghan, their life were about to be good till they were engaged in the war. For the Saudi’s, well, it is kind of difficult to judge but I am sure that 99.99% of them if given the choice between living in US or Saudi they would say Saudi. They feel more of their female side there. Life in the US is very tough for most women and some times a woman need to sells herself to live.
    3- Freedom of unlawful Pregnancy: Well we have almost zero single Moms and very high percentage of the women don’t care much about bringing food to the table.
    4- Economically: Women are kind of spoiled in most of the Muslims countries. (except those who are getting westernized). They are majority in the workforce of the countries. and they don’t get jobs such as Secretaries or the attractive waiters. They do what respected women do (clothes industry, Education, Health, Government Administration.) go to Egypt, Turkey, Malaysia, Pakistan, UAE, (etc.) , it is difficult to find women in a non-westernized facility working in a low type of work (such as waiter, secretary) Islam didn’t prohibit that at all, they use to work what ever suit them unless the work require manly actions.
    5- Control: the wife of the prophet after his death is one of the biggest example on how women used to rule men. She took her Camel and gathered the men for the revenge of Caliphate Ottoman. and because of her, the biggest war after the prophet death was her’s and it was called the battle of the Camel.

    Now My Question to you:

    1- The stories of the Old Testimony for me shall not be distributed to everybody because such stories might reduce the huge sins in the eye of the receiver. this might be the reason the old Roman Church didn’t allow people to read the bible.
    2- in the Old Testimony God made a promise by himself to give the land of Canaan to Israel by the power of the people (Jihad). If you read the both testimonies, you conclude that it is not the same God.
    3- Augustine, you said that there are only two laws you are following, Love God and Love you neighbor. but there are certain things you are not allowed to do. like looking at strange women with sexual feeling. You might be able to love that women (in the name of God) but you cannot control your instinct the punishment of that is very harsh which make it better to take you eye out than having that punishment. Another example, Paul told you to eat from the butcher without asking where this meat came from, but if you know it was sacrifices of the pagan, then you are not allowed to eat from (the pagans . you cannot love god and disobey him in the same time.
    4- The Women are liberated but still they were considered less than men, (1 Corinthians 11:9). The teaching of the Christian was only for men, In Islam, Women made almost the same contribution in the teaching of the religion.

    best regards,

    Reply

  6. The Rat
    Jan 10, 2012 @ 07:09:01

    OF COURSE “Muslim women are treated better than Christian women.”

    What sane young girl wouldn’t look forward to genital mutilation?

    What sane woman wouldn’t appreciate being raped, and only being able to prove it if three witnesses were present?

    What sane woman (girl) wouldn’t look forward to being the victim of an “honor killing?”

    Hell, what sane woman wouldn’t WANT her daughter killed “in honor?”

    Besides, why do women need to have the right to drive? Their “loving husbands” know what is best for them, right? Seems to work out just peachy in Saudi Arabia.

    Reply

  7. abdulbasit I. Gari
    Jan 14, 2012 @ 02:49:42

    Mr. Rat,

    I just want to give an idea of how we think.

    1) Gential Mutilation for Women was never an Islamic thing. I know that in Egypt, some (saeedi People) do it and they inherited that from their tradition (Coptic Christian) but not islam. You can read the books of Muslims (Quran and Hadith) from cover to cover and you cannot find any thing related to that.

    2) Regarding when being Raped they have to get three witnesses. I cannot get any references from the islamic books. However, there is a sick asshole was catched in saudi arabia for raping girls. the girls never brought any evidences but they caught that bastard and put to trail. The four witnesses when we want to accuse a man or a girl of having sex. (women might be exposed by being pregnant).

    Thanks God, the Raping Rate is very very low because we Women and Men are not in direct contact most of the time. and they do, most of women are covered.

    3) Regarding the victim of Honor, I just want you to know that The highest number of those who make such thing are christian. This is not related to Islam, it is the tradition. In The Saeed of Egypt (Mostly Coptic), and in Lebanon (Mostly Christian) women honor is very important while their women are in direct engagement with men.

    4) regarding let them drive, Well we have a problem we are trying to solve this problem. (Saudi Arabia is the only coutry that do not allow women to drive for safety reasons, and not related to islamic issue).
    The desert Arab (check Quran 9:97) are not easy to control. despite all the teaching Islam given to them, they cannot understand that women are human being like them. I remember that two Greek ladies came with their husbands in the 80’s to a deserted town in saudi arabia, and in the first day these two ladys went exercising (and you know, we only bra and short) they got raped by two men who take care of camels.
    In all other part of the Islamic world, Women can drive and they can take care of the childern. (Malaysian women for example are one of the best example of Muslim ladies)

    (before we became prejudice, we need to look on the issue from other point of view. I need you to understand that there are differnt environments in the world and we cannot apply the freedom level as in the US to other part of the world. Saudi Arabia consist of many tribes. I know a marrige ceremony hosted more than 5000 people from two tribes. Their nature is totaly different than what you know in the western world.
    if a person punched another from a different tribe, you can expect a big war will take place that will be much more than a gangster fight. In Yemen, these tribes have as far as tankers.
    when Saudi Arabia make a low, they have to consider these tribes and their tradition.

    Islam was the Salvation to those women in these tribes.

    Reply

  8. wayne2008sblogsite
    Jan 14, 2012 @ 16:48:12

    Abdul, according to Islam, isn’t it true that Mary the Mother of Jesus was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus?

    That would make Jesus the Messiah the Son of God.Right?

    Reply

  9. abdulbasit I. Gari
    Jan 14, 2012 @ 22:16:32

    Wayne,

    The way Muslim thinks about it is similar to the Arianism (from Arius), Jesus was created (proverbs 8)
    Arius writing and teaching were totally destroyed by the Roman Empire. However, the only thing we know that he believed that Jesus was a creature like any human being and he came to teach the people not to be worshiped (Mark 15:34). He didn’t know when is the doom day is (Mark 13:32). He was a Miracle by being created from a virgin. (like the creation of Adam or Eve from Adam) but this is not doesn’t mean that he is a God otherwise, Adam would be a God too.

    We as Muslim believe that God do not need to have a son and if he wanted to have son, he could choose from what he created as many sons as he likes. (Read about God from the Old testimony)

    When we read the bible, we can clearly make sense of Jesus statement of being the son of Human and that he is a worshiper of God, but we cannot get the idea of of him as a divine being in the same time.
    In Quran, we read about Jesus that he said to Israel: “I came to permit some of what is prohibited to you” but not to make you free from any obligations.

    Reply

  10. wayne2008sblogsite
    Jan 14, 2012 @ 22:26:35

    Abdul, it was prophesied by the Hebrew Prophets that the son of God would be born from a virgin, Jesus was born from a virgin…how many other births that according to Islam was from a virgin?

    God is three-fold, The Father,The Son, The Holy Spirit all three are one God.
    Why does Mohammad hate Jesus the Son of God?
    Mohammad was just a man born from a common woman, yet Jesus was born from a miracle virgin woman who was impregnated by the Holy Spirit….?

    Does Islam believe in the Holy Spirit?

    Reply

  11. wayne2008sblogsite
    Jan 14, 2012 @ 22:48:57

    Jesus was the second Adam. And Jesus knew he was going to die as a sacrifice for all of mans sins an atonement to God. He was crucified upon a cross just as the prophecy said he would be crucified over 1000 years before in the book of Psalms.

    I am asking you Abdul, How come you don’t believe Jesus is the Son of God? I am not asking other Muslims or Islamist. I am asking you a personal question. How come you personally don’t believe Jesus is the son of the living God?

    Reply

  12. abdulbasit I. Gari
    Jan 15, 2012 @ 07:26:32

    Since born, I was told that there is only one God Up in the sky. This God is Dimensionless and timeless. He Created the dimensions and time (big bang Theory). When I grew up I went to the US to study Engineering, it was the first time for me to see different religion other than Islam.
    out of curiosity, I went to a church and asked about the Christianity. A guy immediately brought me a bible in Arabic. I went through it but I didn’t have enough interest to read it all. when I went back home 12 years ago, I went to another isolation from others again.

    Then I was assigned to work in South Korea where I get to meet those Jehovah’s Witnesses everywhere. and I decided to study the Christianity thoroughly. to tell you the truth, the purpose of my study is to debate with them.

    After going through the Bible, its commentaries and the History of Christianity, I had several reason to believe that this book is not entirely the word of God. I can understand why the protestants decided to remove several books from the bible and I understand why there is disagreement between Roman Catholic and Orthodox regarding the interpretation of the Trinity.

    In Islam there are things that do no make sense to me but they are secondary things I don’t need to believe in to be a Muslim. But in Christianity, my disagreement is in the Basic Concepts.

    Jesus is one of five most respected Prophets in Islam. His Mother is the best Women God created. So Muhammad Never Hated Jesus His name is mentioned in Quran with positive description much More than the Name of Muhammad himself mentioned. (Search Quran for Isa)

    there’re things I cannot understand. God do not take favors from anyone so why he take a favor from Mary for getting berth of his son?
    God cannot be humiliated, why he get humiliated by Israelite People?
    And why God get a child of him anyway? The salvation of the world can be done without a son because he is God Almighty. if he wish to forgive us, it doesn’t take a word from him. he just make the decision.

    The Holy Spirit Concept is not easy to understand too. Jesus Said about the holy spirit: (he) will not speak of himself but what ever (he) hear (he) tells. (as Muslims we see the comforter description fit the prophet Muhammad more than the holy spirit). I cannot find in the history when had the Holy Spirit spoken. “(He) shall teach us everything” (John 14:26) but I don’t see the teaching. (The Apostles never said “the holy spirit taught me or told me).
    God is the supreme power of the Universe and He is with every body all the time, he does not need to have a holy spirit to reach the people.
    In Quran (as we believe the word of God): (and he is closer to you than the string of vein)
    and if you look in the Old Testimony, there was only one God and should be the same still.

    (abdul.gari@gmail.com)

    Reply

  13. wayne2008sblogsite
    Jan 15, 2012 @ 16:00:26

    Abdul : Since born, I was told that there is only one God Up in the sky. This God is Dimensionless and timeless. He Created the dimensions and time (big bang Theory). When I grew up I went to the US to study Engineering, it was the first time for me to see different religion other than Islam. out of curiosity, I went to a church and asked about the Christianity. A guy immediately brought me a bible in Arabic. I went through it but I didn’t have enough interest to read it all. when I went back home 12 years ago, I went to another isolation from others again. Then I was assigned to work in South Korea where I get to meet those Jehovah’s Witnesses everywhere. and I decided to study the Christianity thoroughly. to tell you the truth, the purpose of my study is to debate with them.
    …………………………………..
    Wayne: There is only one God and Jesus the son of God is the same as God just as the Holy Spirit is God (The Father,The Son,The Holy Spirit)these three are one. God is everywhere,all knowing and almighty.
    God is everywhere..how is God everywhere? answer. God is everywhere through the Holy Spirit..the Holy Spirit is God.
    There are not three Gods but one God. The son of God had already existed before he came to earth in a material body.
    The book of the Genesis chapter one:
    1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
    The book of the Genesis clearly say’s there is the Spirit of God and also God. God is the Father of all creation. God has a Spirit.
    ………………………………………………………………………
    Abdul : After going through the Bible, its commentaries and the History of Christianity, I had several reason to believe that this book is not entirely the word of God.
    ……………………………………………………………………………………..
    Wayne : What are those reasons or doubts?
    ………………………………………………………..
    Abdul : I can understand why the protestants decided to remove several books from the bible and I understand why there is disagreement between Roman Catholic and Orthodox regarding the interpretation of the Trinity.
    ………………………………………….
    Wayne: Are you speaking of the New Testament books?
    ……………………………………….
    Abdul : In Islam there are things that do no make sense to me but they are secondary things I don’t need to believe in to be a Muslim. But in Christianity, my disagreement is in the Basic Concepts.
    …………………………………..
    Wayne : Is the Quran the word of God or the words of Mohammad?
    ………………………………………..
    Abdul : Jesus is one of five most respected Prophets in Islam. His Mother is the best Women God created. So Muhammad Never Hated Jesus His name is mentioned in Quran with positive description much More than the Name of Muhammad himself mentioned. (Search Quran for Isa) there’re things I cannot understand.
    …………………………………………
    Wayne: If Mother Mary is the most blessed woman to ever live, then why is that?
    Mohammad was a prophet according to Islam, so why isn’t his mother the most blessed woman since Quran says Jesus was just a prophet and not the son of God?
    …………………………………………
    Abdul : God do not take favors from anyone so why he take a favor from Mary for getting berth of his son? God cannot be humiliated, why he get humiliated by Israelite People? And why God get a child of him anyway? The salvation of the world can be done without a son because he is God Almighty. if he wish to forgive us, it doesn’t take a word from him. he just make the decision.
    ………………………………………………
    Wayne: Man was created with “free will ” meaning he can decide for himself, God could have made us all robots but he didn’t create us as robots he created us to think for ourselves and to choose for ourselves. In choosing and thinking for ourselves Adam and Eve committed sin by disobeying God the Father.
    The book of the Genesis chapter two:
    7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 1 Cor. 15.45
    16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
    17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
    18 ¶ And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a help meet for him.
    21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept; and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof.
    22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
    23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, 1 because she was taken out of Man. 2
    25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
    The book of the Genesis chapter three:
    6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
    [The woman and the man both chose to eat the fruit, (this is free will) in eating the fruit they disobeyed God and were no longer pure or sinless, they are now damned to die. This also means that all of their children and descendents would also have sin, they will be born with sin. The reason God sent his son to the earth and to be born of a virgin woman was that Jesus was to be born sinless, Jesus is the second Adam. Remember how the people of Israel would bring animals to the Holy Temple to be killed, sacrificed to God. That is what God had told them to do was to sacrifice animals and the animals blood was the atonement for the peoples sins and every year the sin was removed. The animals scarificed to God had to be without a blemish just like Jesus had to be without a blemish that is why he was born of a virgin woman who was impregnated by the Holy Spirit.
    Jesus was to be sacrificed to God so that all of mankinds sins could be removed. The blood of Jesus was the ransom or atonement made to God so that all of mankind could once again be sinless and live forever just as Adam and Eve were once sinless and could have lived forever but they sinned and now their bodies and all of mankinds bodies must die because of the sin. By Jesus dying through his blood he paid the price that God wanted in order for mankind to be forgiven of his sins. Jesus on the third day had came back to life and now lives forever more, since Jesus had came back to life, this means that all who believe that Jesus is the son of God and ask God the Father to forgive them of their sins will live forever once they die.
    Saved because once they ask God the Father to forgive them in Jesus name, the spirit of God then comes into their souls, only them that ask to be forgiven of their sins in Jesus name of their own free will]
    ……………………………..
    Abdul: The Holy Spirit Concept is not easy to understand too. Jesus Said about the holy spirit: (he) will not speak of himself but what ever (he) hear (he) tells. (as Muslims we see the comforter description fit the prophet Muhammad more than the holy spirit). I cannot find in the history when had the Holy Spirit spoken. “(He) shall teach us everything” (John 14:26) but I don’t see the teaching. (The Apostles never said “the holy spirit taught me or told me).
    …………………………………
    Wayne: The book of John chapter fourteen:
    18 ¶ I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
    19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
    20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
    21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
    22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscar’i-ot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
    23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
    24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.
    25 ¶ These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
    26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
    27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
    28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
    29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
    30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
    31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.
    [This is what Jesus was speaking about, after he is killed he would rise from the dead and when Jesus ascended to heaven the Holy Spirit the same is the Spirit of God, will come upon the Apostles and all those who have asked God the father to forgive them of their sins in Jesus name]
    The book of Acts chapter one:
    The Promise of the Holy Spirit
    1 The former treatise have I made, O The-oph’ilus, Lk. 1.1-4 of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
    2 until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
    3 to whom also he showed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
    4 and, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, Lk. 24.49 which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
    5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost Mt. 3.11 · Mk. 1.8 · Lk. 3.16 · Joh. 1.33 not many days hence.

    The Ascension of Jesus.
    6 ¶ When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
    7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
    8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Mt. 28.19 · Mk. 16.15 · Lk. 24.47, 48
    9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. Mk. 16.19 · Lk. 24.50, 51
    10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
    11 which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
    [Now the Holy Spirit which is the Spirit of God comes upon them all ]
    The Coming of the Holy Spirit
    1 And when the day of Pentecost Lev. 23.15-21 · Deut. 16.9-11 was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
    2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
    3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
    4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
    5 ¶ And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
    6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
    7 And they were all amazed and marveled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galileans?
    8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
    9 Par’thi-ans, and Medes, and E’lamites, and the dwellers in Mesopota’mi-a, and in Judea, and Cappado’cia, in Pontus, and Asia,
    10 Phryg’i-a, and Pamphyl’i-a, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyre’ne, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
    11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
    12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
    13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
    Peter’s Address at Pentecost
    14 ¶ But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
    15 for these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
    16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
    17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,and your young men shall see visions,and your old men shall dream dreams:
    18 and on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit;
    and they shall prophesy:
    19 and I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath;
    blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke:
    20 the sun shall be turned into darkness,and the moon into blood,
    before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
    21 and it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Joel 2.28-32
    22 ¶ Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
    23 him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Mt. 27.35 · Mk. 15.24 · Lk. 23.33 · Joh. 19.18
    24 whom God hath raised up, Mt. 28.5, 6 · Mk. 16.6 · Lk. 24.5 having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
    25 For David speaketh concerning him,I foresaw the Lord always before my face;
    for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
    26 therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad;moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
    27 because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell,neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
    28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life;thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. Ps. 16.8-11
    29 ¶ Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
    30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; Ps. 89.3, 4 ; 132.11
    31 he, seeing this before, spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
    32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
    33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
    34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself,The LORD said unto my Lord,Sit thou on my right hand,
    35 until I make thy foes thy footstool. Ps. 110.1
    36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
    37 ¶ Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
    40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
    41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
    42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
    43 ¶ And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
    44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; Acts 4.32-35
    45 and sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. Mt. 19.21 · Mk. 10.21 · Lk. 12.33 ; 18.22
    46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
    47 praising God, and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
    [The Holy Spirit of God came to them and inside of them that repented of their sins asking God the Father to forgive them of their sins in the name of Jesus ]
    ………………………………………………..
    Abdul : God is the supreme power of the Universe and He is with every body all the time, he does not need to have a holy spirit to reach the people.
    ……………………………………………………….
    Wayne : The Holy Spirit is necessary because the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. When a person is saved or born again, the Spirit of God comes inside of them and seals their souls so that they will live forever when they die. The Holy Spirit the Spirit of God is with that person the rest of their life. I am not a Catholic or Orthodox Christian, I am a Baptist.
    Don’t get confused by the traditions which the other Christian faiths do, what is most important is the basics. Jesus was born of a virgin, Jesus was born with the Holy Spirit, Jesus was the son of God before he was born in the flesh, he came from heaven and was born in the flesh and live as mankind(the son of man) Jesus was killed as a sacrifice so that God the Father could forgive mankind of their sins, so that all who ask God the Father to forgive them of their sins in Jesus name they will be saved and live forever more just as Jesus lives forever more.
    Man cannot enter heaven if he is a sinner, he can only enter heaven if he has the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God within him.]
    [Mohammad is not the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God. Mohammad was just a man like you and I and according to the Quran the Holy Angel spoke to him. It was prophesied that the Christ or Messiah would be born of a virgin, Mohammad was not born of a virgin only Jesus was born of a virgin. Jesus is the Christ the Messiah and through him all who call upon God the Father and ask to be forgiven of their sins in Jesus name will be saved.The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God will come to them and live in them]
    …………………………………………..
    Abdul : In Quran (as we believe the word of God): (and he is closer to you than the string of vein) and if you look in the Old Testimony, there was only one God and should be the same still.
    …………………………………
    Wayne :There is only one God and is only a misunderstanding by Muslims and Islam that they think Jesus is a separate God or that the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God is a separate God than God the Father. God is one. God has a Spirit,God has a son these three are One God they are not three separate Gods.

    Reply

  14. abdulbasit I. Gari
    Jan 15, 2012 @ 23:11:27

    I found this guy on the internet who is inline with my understanding:

    I don’t want to disturb the guys in this blog with this lengthy discussion, I would prefer to have e-mail communication if you wish.

    (abdul.gari@gmail.com)

    Reply

  15. wayne2008sblogsite
    Jan 16, 2012 @ 09:51:04

    Abdul, The Holy Spirit is not Mohammad.The Holy Spirit is God.
    I will be writing a blog soon explaining what this means.

    It will include some verses from the Quran.

    The Quran says that the Torah and the Gospel were given to Jesus to deliver the message to the world. Jesus said in the gospel that he is the son of God. If the Angel Gabriel said the gospel is the truth and the word from God then why is it so hard to believe that Jesus is the son of God?

    Reply

  16. abdulbasit I. Gari
    Jan 17, 2012 @ 08:36:39

    Jesus was considered as a God and the begotten son of God after the Nicaea 325 Creed by the Emperor Constantine I. (the whole trinity idea)

    all other understanding than that was destroyed with no mercy.
    After that Creed, Christianity went through the dark Ages.
    for more than 1000 years, anybody who read the bible will be an outlaw and he is punished by Death.

    from the documentary above, you would know that there were more 50,000,000 people killed because of that.
    For sure protestants (and baptist as well) had the right to be reform, but with all the killing and destructions, I don’t think that we have a bible that is entirely the word of God almighty.
    God told Moses (peace be upon him):
    “They made me jealous by what is no god and angered me with their worthless idols. I will make them envious by those who are not a people; I will make them angry by a nation that (has no understanding).” (NIV) or ” I will anger them with a foolish nation.” (AMP, KJV, NABS) or “with a hollow nation incense them.”

    Jesus was the last man from the House of Isarael to come from God, then God replaced the house of Isarel with “Foolish”, “Has no understanding”, and “Hollow” nation.
    Some people say they are the Greek while Greek used to be the highest in Education, the smartest and for sure they were not Hollow. (same applies to the Roman) Same applies to the persian, Chinese..

    The only nation who took the control over the world and they were “foolish”, “Has no understanding”, and “Hollow” were the Arab,
    They were desert people who barely bring food to the ground (as they didn’t know what does table mean).

    Reply

  17. abdulbasit I. Gari
    Jan 17, 2012 @ 09:06:06

    I can see why a verse such as below no matching with what Quran told us about bible: “If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them.”
    this is how they controlled the people by the word of God (or what they made them believe as the word of God).
    In Islam we understand the bible used to be different:
    We ordained therein (in the old books) for them: “Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal.” But if anyone remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) wrong-doers.

    our practice as Muslim that:

    {190} وَقَاتِلُوا فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ الَّذِينَ يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ وَلَا تَعْتَدُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يُحِبُّ الْمُعْتَدِينَ
    Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

    Muslims are suppose not to Transgress the limits of others unless they start the transgression. We never bow to Evil.

    Reply

  18. abdulbasit I. Gari
    Jan 17, 2012 @ 09:29:00

    I want to add one more thing that Constantine did. He duplicated the Story of his Wine God Dionysus in the story of Jesus. From this story he considered Jesus as God and allowed drinking wine (Claimed Jesus Blood)
    http://kingdavid8.com/Copycat/JesusDionysus.html

    Reply

  19. wayne2008sblogsite
    Jan 17, 2012 @ 13:36:24

    Abdul don’t be fooled. They are liars.
    [5] Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.
    [6] And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them,
    [7] And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.
    [8] And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way.
    [9] And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.
    [10] And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this?
    [11] And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.
    The book of Matthew chapter 21 v 5-10
    9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
    The book of Zechariah chapter 9 v 9
    Jesus was fulfilling the prophecy of the Hebrew prophet Zechariah chapter 9 v 9. It had nothing to do with Dionysus since the prophecy of Zechariah was recorded around the year 487 BC, around 500 years before Jesus rode the ass into the temple.
    There are evil people who wish to distort the truth and they use these ancient pagan gods and try to make them into Jesus in order to fool the righteous and turn people from believing in God, they also use an ancient pagan god named Horus, these are the Atheists who are unbelievers. They use the Zeigest video and promote false teachings to the young people to make them believe the stories of Jesus were made up.

    Reply

  20. wayne2008sblogsite
    Jan 17, 2012 @ 14:01:04

    You’re speaking of the Catholic church and the Emperor Constatine I, Jesus did not promote this doctrine, I am not a Catholic but a Baptist and the Baptists were killed because they opposed those doctrines which are contrary to the gospel.

    Baptists believe in the Baptism of Jesus which is full immersion under water, we do not believe that saints should be worshiped or that Mary the Mother of Jesus should be worshiped like the Catholic doctrine teaches, we do not believe in the Apostolic succession, only Jesus is the head of the churches and not the Pope.

    Jesus was not born on December 25, the Catholic doctrine promotes that because the Catholic doctrine is mixed the beliefs of the pagan gods, though many Christians will celebrate the birth of Jesus on that day, we know that is not the day Jesus was born on. Jesus death and resurrection has nothing to do with the pagan beliefs since the passover was observed by the Hebrews since they came out of Egypt around 1491 BC almost 1500 years before Jesus was crucified on the cross.

    The book of Psalms is taught by Islam, and Jesus was prophesied to die on a cross in the book of Psalms
    1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

    2 O my God, I cry in the day time, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

    3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

    4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

    5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

    6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

    7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

    8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

    9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother’s breasts.

    10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother’s belly.

    11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.

    12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

    13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

    14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

    15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

    16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

    17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

    18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

    19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
    The book of Psalms chapter 22.
    This was Jesus looking down at the people while hanging on the cross dying.

    Reply

  21. wayne2008sblogsite
    Jan 17, 2012 @ 14:19:18

    20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.

    21 Save me from the lion’s mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

    22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

    23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

    24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

    25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.

    26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

    27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

    28 For the kingdom is the LORD’s: and he is the governor among the nations.

    29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

    30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

    31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.
    The book of Psalms chapter 22 vs 20-31
    The book of Psalms was written by King David and Jesus is related to King David through his mother Mary. Jesus is heir to throne of David, Jesus is King of Kings,Lord of Lords.

    Reply

  22. abdulbasit I. Gari
    Jan 19, 2012 @ 02:55:46

    When I define the word “God” I am thinking: Super Power, Perfect, supreme being, Extremely Great, Immortal.

    God is merciful and nobody can give him mercy.
    (Jesus Mother was given to Jesus when he was Baby)

    God is king of king who makes the orders and no body give order to him.
    (Christ did not interpose as a judge in matters of civil government, for his kingdom is not of this world)

    God is Holy and nobody shall humiliate him.
    ([63] And the men that held Jesus mocked him, and smote him.) (Luke 22)

    God is the Exalted in Might and shall fear no thing.
    (And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?) (Matt 27:46)(Mark 15:34)

    God is the one who bless not to be bless
    ([42] And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. (Luke 1))

    God is to be worshiped and not worship
    ([38] Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. [39] And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.) Matt 26.

    When I imagine Jesus while was breast fed, I would say he cannot be a god.
    I cannot imagine an Extremely Great God while he fall down trying to learn walking.
    I cannot imagine a super powerful God while being humiliated by the Hebrews.

    I can imagine Jesus Peace be upon him as a miracle created by God and was sent as a perfect example for human being to follow. I can imagine that this human being was put to test by his god and passes the test.

    I can imagine that after his raise to the sky, that his message reaches all over the world.

    I can imagine that evil people with power (like Constantine) destroys the true Christianity for ever.

    I can imagine that the [He] of john 16:13 means Muhammad:

    [13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

    Jesus never said there will be no more prophet after me. The Spirit of truth shall be a prophet as john said in 1 john 4

    [1] Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

    [2] Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

    Reply

  23. wayne2008sblogsite
    Jan 19, 2012 @ 10:58:10

    Abdul, please go to the Stanford Cornerstone there other Christians will discuss your beliefs with you. I would like to speak with you there..

    http://www.kingpawntillo.com

    Reply

  24. Carl D'Agostino
    Jan 24, 2012 @ 10:21:34

    I think there is quite a difference between the wrathful God of the Old Testament and that of the New Testament. I find it difficult to associate myself with a god that helps the Israelites murder and slay surrounding tribes. I have 2 degrees in religion and after all of my studies I have quit trying to figure it all out and now try to live by 2 directives: never be the source of anyone’s misfortune and never pass up an opportunity to perform a charitable act. Thanks for visiting my humor blog and I limit myself to the lighter side of life. There are many people of faith that follow my cartoons. Blessings.

    Reply

  25. wayne2008sblogsite
    Jan 24, 2012 @ 13:34:55

    I seem to remember a wall separating certain parts of the City of Jerusalem maybe even the Gaza strip. I personally think that Lebanon is a Palestinian state and the Palestinians should build on what they have. Syria could give more land to Lebanon or make a new state with that donated land.

    Reply

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